Or for more help...

Courses & Coaching?

Automated Editing?

Work with us!

SpeakersSpeakers, Workshops, Production

How Long Does it Take to Create a Heavily Produced Show like the Serial Podcast?

In the past month I've been producing a series of Podcasts for one of my regular University partners – Edinburgh Napier University. The series is aimed at university lecturers and, while the subject is heavily educational, that's no excuse for it to be boring.

So I was tasked with producing the episodes in a really polished, professional way, and making sure the content came across as engaging as possible.

As I was doing the work, I realised that the topic of heavily edited and produced audio is pretty hot right now in Podcasting, thanks to the success of Serial, and others like Startup from Gimlet Media. Both shows are made by pro audio producers and are amazing to listen to.

Of course, it's not just the production that makes them – it's the storytelling that's key – but it just wouldn't have the same effect without the polish. The storytelling is relevant here too, though, because I wanted to tell a story throughout this show, and weave in pieces of interview throughout. So, I spent time on both – production polish and narrative.

In the interests of giving a vague answer to the question, “How long does it take them to produce the Serial Podcast or Startup?”, I thought I'd relate the story of one of these episodes.

I logged the time spent on my university series pretty carefully, so I know exactly what went in to every one. Hopefully this'll give you an idea of the process, the time and the effort required, and whether it's something that might be worthwhile for you.

What's the Context?

Alright, quick outline of what I was doing. This isn't strictly necessary to the tale, but provides a bit of colour.

Edinburgh Napier run a Masters course called Blended and Online Education, which is designed to teach university lecturers how to create better online courses for their students. I used to teach on the course back in my educating days, and that's what led to me creating the podcasts in the first place, probably around half a decade ago.

Need Help Launching Your Podcast?

Check out the Academy

To be honest, it was as bit embarrassing listening back to them for the first time in over 5 years! My presenting style sucked, the audio quality was poor, and the production value was near non-existent. Never mind, I thought, let's put everything I've learned in the past 5 years to work and make these shine.

What was the Task?

The series is 12 episodes long, and each episode covers a topic in the area of Technology Enhanced Learning. That just means anything to do with teaching online, in simple terms. For example using Wikis and Blogs to let students submit assignments, how to teach as part of a team online, using discussion forums as assessments and a whole lot more.

My task was to refresh 4 of the episodes that were pretty dated, and create new ones to replace 2 episodes which were so dated they were beyond saving. I'm going to talk about one of the brand new shows here as I think that's the most relevant – there aren't many people out there going around ‘refreshing' old Podcast episodes after all!

Disclaimer: I have no doubt that Gimlet Media and Sarah Koenig spent far more time producing the Startup Podcast and Serial respectively. Gimlet also have a full team to do much of the research, interviewing, production, etc. But, I think this gives a good approximation for those of us not running a full-on production company like Gimlet. 

So, let's look at a show in detail – how did it all go down?

The Podcast Production Process

Research

The first brand new episode was all about MOOCs (Massively Open Online Courses to you and me). This is a subject I know pretty well, but it still took a bit of research to get some nice stats and make sure I was right up to date. During this time I wrote an intro script – around 1 minute's worth – introducing the topic and talking about what we'd cover. This all took just under an hour.

Total Time: 1h 00m

Scheduling

For this episode I wanted to interview just one person who was a leader in the field. I found her through a few references, contacted her, and made a date for recording. All this took probably about 20 minutes in total.

Total Time: 1h 20m

Interviewing

The interview itself was pretty straightforward. I spent a short while beforehand writing up some questions, just to be prepared. I tend just to have 5 or 6 bullet point questions on hand in advance, but don't feel like I have to stick to them too strictly. When the time arose, I Skyped through to the interviewee, clicked on my recorder (recording through my mixer into my trusty H4n) and then went through the questions I had prepared.

The interview lasted nearly 30 minutes (longer than I'd planned, but Amy was delivering some great insights). All in, including managing the resulting audio file, this took about 50 minutes.

Total Time: 2h 10m

Transcription

I've discovered when trying to edit a decent length audio interview and turn it into a good narrative, a transcription is vital. There no other good way to be able to skim around with the content and highlight the parts of important, reorder them, write in your own comments and generally create a plan for editing.

I have tried doing this just by listening to the audio and taking notes, but it's so hard to keep it all in your head – I just need the text in front of me to draw connections between different parts of the content. The key thing here is that it's pretty likely that your eventual show wont have all the parts in the same order as the original recording – your interviewee will loop back to previous points, jump forward to future questions and generally mess up all your well laid plans. You'll need that transcription to be able to tie everything together and make sure you're picking the best quotes for all of the topics you want to cover.

I went through the transcription 1st time and highlighted all of the sections which I thought were good. I also tagged them with themes for the episode itself. Now I was ready for the first bit of editing.

This took about 1hr 10m for the whole thing – that's for an interview just under 30 minutes long. And that's not counting creating the transcription itself, which my assistant did for me. Technically that was another 3 hours or so, but you'll want to outsource that – no-one wants to do transcribing… This would cost about $30 with most transcription services.

Total Time: 3h 20m

Cutting

I'm not going to go into detail on the editing process itself, although I might cover that in a future post if it's of interest. Fire a comment in at the bottom if you want to see details on how I edited this using the transcription. Thinking about it, I do have a few tricks I've learned on how to make sure you have all the pieces in the right format, and are able to apply the necessary FX to produce that polish we're looking for. So, if you want it, let me know.

Anyway, the first step, for me is cutting. This means getting all of the sections I want to keep into one place in Audacity, so that all I have to do now is record my own narration, and piece it all together in the right order. So, I go through the interview audio, I split the track at the relevant parts and organise it all in the way I always do. This took about 30 minutes in total.

Total Time: 3h 50m

Narration

Next step for me is narration, and this starts with scripting. I went through the transcription again and reordered the sections into themes, according to the tags I'd made earlier. This was a starting order, and I started working through it, writing short links between each section.

I try to sum up the last section and link it to the next, also tying in previous points if possible. To me, that's how you tell the story with an interview – you make sure you're building up something the whole time. Take what the interviewee has just said, add it's key point to the narrative which has been told so far, and then hint at what's coming next to build a bit of anticipation. It's tricky, but it's worth it. And it makes for a far more compelling listen than an interview alone, which is often just a jumbled mess of ideas, even if they are great ideas at that.

So, reordering and script writing took another 1h and 20m.

Total Time: 5h 10m

Voice Production

Ok, now it's putting it all to work. I recorded my sections right into Audacity, which didn't take too long. My own narration amounted to less than 5 minutes in total. I didn't want to be stealing the show, after all!

I put the sections in the right order and I placed my own sections in between. Again, let me know if you want details on the mechanics of all this – I'll do another post if so.

At the end of this I had one long timeline with just two voices – my own narration and Amy the interviewee's track. Technically it's enough – the content is there and it could be released. But hey, where's the polish? Time for some tunes.

Oh, and that took about 1hr 30m

Total Time: 6h 40m

Sound production

Now for the icing on the cake – musak. We have a theme tune for the show, and I have a bank of beds (background music) thanks to the most excellent Mike Russell at Music Radio Creative. These, along with some creative editing produce the polish. The mechanics of that will be for another post, but the main examples were adding some nice music transitions to highlight change in themes and using background vocals to keep the pace going when I just wanted to add some quick comments.

This final process took about 1h45m.

Total Time: 8h 25m

Have a Listen to the Final Product

I know the subject wont appeal to many, but you're welcome to listen to the results of my 8+ hours of labour, just to see what comes of it. By all means, let me know what you think, but be kind 🙂

[powerpress]

Summing up the Project

And I was done! The sound production step took me to the end of the episode and all that was left to do was upload it to the final delivery space.

Now then, 8 hours and 25 minutes for a 15 minute episode – how is that going to pay itself back, you ask? Well, the Podcast is a pretty integral part of the Edinburgh Napier course, so in this context, it's well worth it. And it'll be listened to for a few years, at least, before it needs a refresh.

But, in the context of a business Podcast, that's a fair bit of investment. All I can say is that the results are a whole lot more compelling than a standard interview, in my opinion. But it has to be used in the right context. For example, these have to be evergreen. They have to be episodes which are referred back to, again and again, or used for a particular purpose, such as a course, or a promotion. If that's the case, then it could be well worth it. Look at the success of Serial and Startup, after all. I truly believe that it's the extra production values, allied with excellent storytelling that sets them apart, and it's hard to do either in a short amount of time

Tell Me About Your Production Process

I mentioned a few times above that I'm happy to share the details of the production process if you're interested. Drop a comment below to that effect if so.

But a question for you too – does that resemble your process at all? If not, how not? And do you have an idea of how much time you're spending to produce a given amount of audio? I'd love to know.

Remember to check out my Podcast, PodCraft, if you're interested in more material on how to improve your own Podcasting. I'd love your feedback on that too, so drop me a tweet on either this post or PodCraft at @thepodcasthost. Cheers!

Discussion:

  1. Mark Sheldon on 21st January 2015 at 11:17 am

    You can certainly hear its a quality production Colin (well done). If that was your full-time job would be able to reduce those timings do you think or is 8hrs about right?

    • Colin Gray on 21st January 2015 at 4:27 pm

      Thanks Mark, I appreciate the feedback!

      I think if I was doing a similar format every single day, rather than irregularly for clients, then it might be possible to reduce the time allowed a little. But, to be honest, there was nothing there that I hadn’t done before, and it was all done reasonably efficiently, so I’m not sure I could cut it down much.

      It’s the prep and the writing that takes the time, I think. Creating decent, intelligent links, and tying the whole thing into a good narrative is fiddly work, and I found it couldn’t be rushed. The production takes a few hours, sure, but the research and processing takes more. It’s good fun though – really interesting when you get a subject you enjoy, like this one for me!

      Are you thinking about trying some episodes along a similar format Mark?

  2. Isabelle on 25th January 2015 at 12:23 pm

    Nice article Colin. Just a heads up: “no-one wants to to transcribing” 🙂

    • Colin Gray on 26th January 2015 at 9:21 pm

      Whoops, thanks Isabelle 🙂

  3. Kevin Field on 25th January 2015 at 1:14 pm

    A good listen, it’s great that you say ‘enjoy’ at the start of the podcast, so few people in radio or podcast say this simple word. It sets up the podcast giving the listener the idea for an enjoyable experience.

    Great podcasts or more over great audio doesn’t just happen, it takes time and experience. You only get experience from doing and then sharing with others.

    Yes, you can set up and podcast with a USB microphone and a laptop at its basic level. Yet, If you want to create real quality then it is the content and how you put that content together that will make your podcast sing. If you will, it is the prosodic features of your audio, the emotion, passion combined with the clarity of journey for the listener.

    Great blog note and podcast.

    • Colin Gray on 26th January 2015 at 9:24 pm

      Thanks so much for the feedback Kevin, and really insightful! I still want to get you on the PodCast, by the way – get back to me if you’re interested – would love to chat about that ‘journey’ you speak of for my recent series on presenting your content. That’s the key to this storytelling caper that’s been such a success for Series isn’t it?

      Cheers!
      Colin

  4. Tony Brown on 25th January 2015 at 6:35 pm

    Hey Colin. Great post.

    I really appreciate you documenting just how long this process takes.

    I use a similar process to produce my new podcast 3VS.

    I’ve got the entire process down to about 6 hours per episode, which is around 20 mins in length.

    Including creating the images, show note and publishing.

    I use a mix of audio from relevant videos (used under the fair use age policy) and interviews.

    It’s a lot of time and effort invested, but I wanted to bring something different to the table, rather than the popular EO Fire format, many shows follow.

    It’s worth the investment and the listeners appreciate it.

    Thanks again.

    Tony.

    • Colin Gray on 26th January 2015 at 9:32 pm

      Thanks for the feedback Tony – absolutely brilliant to get more points of view on this.

      You’re absolutely right too – there’s more competition coming in every day, I think, so it’s going to be more and more effort to stand out as a Podcaster. I think a combination of great content and great production is the only way! Putting in the extra effort puts you well ahead of the game on that.

      Cheers!
      Colin

  5. Juliet on 4th February 2015 at 7:05 am

    I’m new to creating podcasts. I have been doing a live weekly radio show, Beyond Beliefs, for the online radio station http://www.NaturalHealthRadio.com, and I’m keen to turn those shows into a relevant and valuable podcast.
    To that end I’d love to hear the details of your production processes and some deeper insights into how you use the background music to bring the elements together.
    Thanks for all your content, it’s incredibly useful to a newbie.
    Many blessings, Juliet

    • Colin Gray on 6th February 2015 at 2:03 pm

      No worries Juliet, I’m working on something to cover this since quite a few people have asked for the follow up. Keep your eyes peeled!

  6. Martin Lindeskog on 5th February 2015 at 12:19 am

    Colin,

    I found your site via Libsyn’s Facebook page. Thanks for showing how long time it takes to create a quality podcast.

    I have some bits and pieces left, in order to get everything in place. But I see it as a learning project and I am in it for the long-range. I started with podcasting in 2006.

    I spend pretty much time on research, finding links and writing a post with show notes. This could take several hours to do for a episode that could be 10 minutes of conversation with my co-host, Lotta Gergils Aston on our new podcast show, TrendPal, 15 – 30 minutes solo show, or 60 minutes of a in-depth interview with a guest.

    All the Best,

    Martin Lindeskog

    P.S. I will add your “ultimate podcasting resource list” on my netcasts page on EGO NetCast.

    • Colin Gray on 6th February 2015 at 2:02 pm

      Martin, thanks so much for including me on your resources page, really appreciate. And glad you found the article useful!

      It’s always great to get feedback from other people on their processes too, so this is really handy for me and everyone reading this. Thanks!
      Colin

  7. Madeline on 5th February 2015 at 2:57 pm

    Thanks, very interesting analysis. I’m really interested in the process and workflow, so yes, do please supply the extra info if you can!
    Many thanks
    Madeline

  8. vapourplanet on 7th April 2015 at 11:27 pm

    That is a very good tip particularly to those new to the blogosphere.
    Brief but very accurate information… Thanks
    for sharing this one. A must read article!

Leave a Comment





Written by:

Colin Gray

Colin has been teaching people how to podcast since 2007. He's worked with Universities, businesses and hobbyists alike. He started The Podcast Host to share his experience and to help as many people as possible get into Podcasting. He runs Podcraft, to spread the art of podcasting, and does the Mountain Bikes Apart podcast whenever he can. Who doesn't like to talk bikes, after all!

January 20th 2015