A Brands-Eye View of the Podcasting Industry, & Podcast Episode Swaps

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On this episode of PodCraft, we take part in a podcast episode swap with Evo Terra and his industry essential Podcast Pontifications show.

We talk a lot about audience growth in our articles. In fact, promotion and growth is the number 1 thing podcasters struggle with, according to our recent podcaster problems survey.

One of the tips we’ve recommended for years is to see the other podcasters in your space as collaborators, rather than competition. Cross-promotion is a great example of the old saying “a rising tide lifts all boats”. After all, this medium is on-demand, and it isn’t like your listeners have to choose between your show and someone else’s.

We had the opportunity to get involved in a podcast episode swap recently with the excellent Evo Terra and his industry essential Podcast Pontifications show. It’s a show I’m sure you’ll love, and this episode is an ideal taster of what you can expect to hear, 4 days a week, if you hit the subscribe button.

Here’s the episode of Podcraft that was featured over there too – it was all about question research and how this strategy can help you create episodes to pull in new listeners.

Podcast Pontifications

Before we jump into the episode content, let’s take a quick look at the show’s description so you can get a better idea of what it’s about and who it’s for.


“Where plenty of podcasts about podcasting (PAPs) tell you what to do, Podcast Pontifications gives you what to think about in podcasting. These daily, insightful forward-looking episodes have one central tenet: Podcasting needs to be made better, not just easier. Designed for the working podcaster, these short-form episodes get you thinking about the future of podcasting and how you can better prepare yourself — and your shows — for the future. The goal is simple: help you develop critical thinking skills needed to make the best future-proofed podcast you can with the tools of today. Plus a few sneak previews of what might be coming tomorrow.”


And now to the episode itself, here’s the question that Evo is pontificating on…

authors avatar

Evo Terra

Nearly twenty years in, and many podcasters still have trouble thinking of podcasting as an industry. But our problem does not plague cash-flush brands looking to enter our industry. Who’s perspective will win out? 

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Podcast Pontifications: a podcast episode swap with PodCraft

A Brands-Eye View of the Podcasting Industry: Episode Swap Transcription

Hey folks and welcome to another episode of PodCraft. This is the show all about podcasting from launching your show to monetization and everything in between. I’m Colin Gray from the Podcast Host as always. And this is a bit of a different episode this time, we’re doing what’s called an episode swap with the most excellent, Evo Terra. Now, episode swaps are essentially an episode exchange. So we’ve got an episode of PodCraft dropping on Evo’s feed over on Podcast Pontifications which I’ll tell you about in just a sec and how this all works. But it means that we are dropping an episode of him on PodCraft here as well. So the whole idea which you could obviously use for your own podcast at some point is to find someone in your area, in your niche someone podcasting on something similar to yourself, and really just exchange audiences.

Now, some people say it’s about competition you’re passing your audience around, it might be somebody that’s competing with your own area, but let’s be honest everyone listens to more than one podcast in your area. There’s plenty of room, plenty of space and especially in this case, Evo actually does a kind of a different approach to us. So to tell you about Evo, Evo I met at Podcast Movement a couple of years ago now and got to know him and really got to respect the way he thinks about the industry and the deep thinking he puts into how to make successful shows and how the podcasting industry works. So I listened to Podcast Pontifications on a pretty regular basis too, and he releases short episodes. So five to 10 minutes on I think it’s every four… No, sorry, four days a week. So he is releasing a really regular episode, really going deep on podcasting.

So it’s a good companion to PodCraft, obviously that we go into the real, how-to, and Evo does a lot more kind of more current affairs, not current affairs. You know what I mean? Like the stuff that’s going on now, and the trends and how to take advantage of little things that are happening right now, as well as longer-term trends and longer-term thoughts. So pop over to Podcast Pontifications, you’ll find that on iTunes search iTunes. What am I talking about? Apple Podcasts search Podcast Pontifications on Apple Podcast to find them there and you’ll find Podcast Pontifications go on and have a listen. And if you want to try an episode drop by all means drop us a line and let us know how it goes. I’d love to hear how an episode drop goes with yourselves in your own niche, finding somebody related, but anyway, take it away Evo. Let’s hear what he has to say.


Nearly 20 years in and many podcasters still have trouble thinking of podcasting as an industry, but our problem does not plague the cash-flush brands looking to enter our industry. Whose perspective will win out?

Hello and welcome to another Podcast Pontifications with me, Evo Terra. How big is the podcasting industry? Go ahead, answer that yourself. Now, if you have an answer, it’s probably something like a billion dollars. That’s the number the IAB gives out for US advertising sales in 2021. Now you can make that a little more than 1.4 billion if you factor in the entire global advertising estimates, which is probably a good idea for us to do. But that’s just revenue podcasting sees from advertising. That’s not the entire podcasting industry. So it’s rather missing out if you will, on everything that you and I spend money on. Things like microphones and hosting providers and content creation and podcast conferences.

Now, second question, who would you say are the big players in the podcasting industry? You probably said Apple, Spotify, maybe Wondery out there, but you probably didn’t bother to consider TuneIn or certainly SoundCloud did you? Yeah, me either. But that’s because we’re inside podcasting with all the baggage and the history and punditry that comes with that. But big brands and industries on the outside of podcasting looking in, they need a different perspective. So how shocked would you be if I told you that the total size of the podcasting industry, somewhere north of $14 billion, 14, not one.

Now that’s an estimate of the total size of our industry and that estimate is projected to grow to nearly 95 billion in 2028, six years. That my friends is a healthy growth curve. And when big brands look at podcasting, they absolutely look at the companies we’ve collectively dismissed or decided to poopoo like TuneIn, like SoundCloud. It doesn’t matter that we podcasters feel those companies aren’t worthy of being in the podcasting space, if we feel anything at all about those companies. Both of them, and probably lots of others we are ignoring are clearly part of the industry of podcasting, not just a part, actually a large portion of the machinery behind the total podcasting industry.

Let’s go back to our perspective for just a moment, the jaded podcaster, if you will. We’re going to see more of these outside looking in reports as this decade progresses, really. And when we, jaded podcasters read these reports from people outside of our industry, we’re going to dismiss them just completely out of hand. I mean, how can we take seriously a report that says, for example, advertising is the only revenue-generating method for podcasting, but it has failed to gain traction as the audience refrain from listening to advertisements between ongoing content. Well fine, but we know that’s not true. Podcast advertising’s growing greatly. Or what about blood pressure raising statements like the solo podcast format has advantages such as ease of use and minimal investment with mainly just a microphone and basic editing tools. Once again, propagating the “podcasting is cheap and easy” myth.

So yeah, reports like this utter bullshit when looked at from the inside, but they’re also so quite beneficial for us even as we hate to read them. And in fact, that is what exactly what I recommend you do. Hate read the report that I have linked in the episode details of this show. And then once your anger has subsided or your mirth has subsided, read it again. This is what our industry looks like to the outside world. It’s a very appealing look, which is bound to bring in more interest, more money, more content, and more listeners. But I can hear you saying it right now, what about the indie podcasters, Evo?

Well, here’s what I think about that. You see, I’m not worried about the indie podcaster in all of this. Now that’s not to say I don’t care about the indie podcaster, I do, deeply hell I am an indie podcaster. I’ve always been an indie podcaster. I just don’t buy much the whole corporate podcasters are ruining podcasting and excluding indie podcasters’ argument. I mean, yeah, I do agree that corporate-backed podcaster networks can often outcompete a lot of indie podcasters, but you know what? Just like corporate-backed movies, TV shows, books, movies, documentaries, news outlets, education centres, restaurant, pet supply stores, and every other corporate-backed entity often outcompetes their undermoneyed indie counterparts. But also there are plenty of indies in every one of those categories I just mentioned doing well. Now, do they struggle? Sure. Are they afforded the same access as corporate-backed properties? No, not always. But do they make it? Yeah, some do and some really thrive and so will indie podcasters. And with that, I shall be back tomorrow with yet another Podcast Pontifications. Cheers.

Podcast Pontifications is written and narrated by Evo Terra. He’s on a mission to make podcasting better. Links to everything mentioned in today’s episode are in the notes section of your podcast listening app. A written to be read article based on today’s episode is available at podcastpontifications.com, where you’ll also find a video version and a corrected transcript, both created by Ali Press. Podcast Pontifications is a production of Simpler Media find out more at simpler.media.

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